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  AGENDA, 24 SEPTEMBER PRESENTED BY SIMON DALLOW SIMON Good morning and welcome to the programme I'm Simon Dallow and you're with Agenda. This morning the election, the aftermath, what the Greens really want to tell business, Rod Donald is here now, and also how the Maori Party will make a difference, Pita Sharples will join us live, so too will Richard Prebble to look back on the election and tell us where National and Act went wrong, and we meet two new National MPs Allan Peachey and Jacqui Dean and hear about their ambitions. Well Peter Dunne says they're luddites, Winston Peters says they're extremists, two of Labour's potential support parties in the next parliament sound as if they won't have a bar of the Greens. But with six seats and Labour needing at least 12 more seats than its current 50 to form a government Helen Clark will have to include them somehow in her negotiations over the next few weeks, maybe that’s why the Greens who oppose free trade agreements and want to impose pollution taxes are this week going out to court business with invitations being sent to 40 of the country's top business to meet with them next week. But what do the Greens really want? Co-Leader Rod Donald is with me now, good morning Mr Donald. ROD Good morning Simon. SIMON In the paper this morning John Armstrong says you have a resolve to get core policies implemented after six years of waiting in the wings, what is the price of your support for Labour? ROD Well I think we've been waiting longer than six years actually because we go back to the Values Party 1972 was when we started and if you read our 75 manifesto many of the things that we're calling for today are exactly what we were saying needed to happen back then, so when somebody calls us extremist I accept that label to the extent that we are extremely concerned about the state of the planet, we're extremely concerned that we've reached the end of cheap oil and we don’t have the infrastructure in place to cope with that, we don’t have for example in Auckland the passenger rail network that we need, when of course the whole of the rail system went into private hands it was run down so now there's far too much freight on our roads where of course it's not safe and it churns the roads up, we need to get that off the roads back on the track where it belongs, we don’t have enough renewable energy in New Zealand, so there's talk of burning coal at the same time we've got a climate change problem. We've got a big agenda a very broad agenda and we're not putting down bottom lines because we don’t have enough seats to put us in a position to call the tune but we certainly hope that Labour will see the merits of many of our policies. SIMON Come on you’ve gotta give us something more specific than that, you’ve given us some history, you’ve given us some broad principles, you gave us your election platform essentially, but you must have something that you want out of government or for your price for support of Labour. What's number one? ROD Well today's price has to be that Mike Ward becomes Helen Clark's art adviser after winning the supreme award at Wearable Arts last night, that would be a good start. Number one seriously Simon is that we're in parliament to make a difference. We want to make a positive contribution, we put up a whole range of policies during the election campaign. SIMON With respect Mr Donald these are broad platitudes, what is your number one priority for support for Labour? ROD We have not laid down conditions, we have said to Labour in our negotiations and in public that we want to work with them, we believe we've got a big contribution we can make, particularly in the energy field and we said during the campaign clean secure energy is a top priority for us, we have Jeanette Fitzsimons who is an acknowledge expert not just in New Zealand but internationally in that field, I hope she can play a major role in the next government whether we're in coalition or have a confidence and supply arrangement. SIMON Has she been offered a major role, has she been offered an energy role? ROD We haven’t been offered anything yet. SIMON Has it been talked about? ROD We don’t even know the final outcome of the election, we won't know until Saturday the 1st whether Nandor can come back on his skateboard, we have seven seats of that is the case and we're very optimistic that that will be the outcome because at the last two elections we picked up an extra MP, Keith Locke in 1999, Mike Ward in 2002. Now if we get Nandor that means National lose a seat that brings Labour Progressive Greens up to 58, cuts National and Act down to 50 and the whole complexion of parliament changes. SIMON And actually your possibilities. That would give you some leverage, as it stands at the moment it seems like you don’t have a lot of leverage. ROD That would certainly improve our position and it would improve the position of a progressive government that can move forward and implement constructive policies that future proof the economy and make our society fairer and so forth. SIMON Coming back to Jeanette Fitzsimons and the energy portfolios has it been discussed, a role for her in Cabinet? ROD No it hasn’t. SIMON Not at all? ROD Not at all. SIMON But you are aiming for that? ROD Well we said right throughout the campaign that we are willing to work with Labour including in coalition in the right circumstances, unfortunately we didn’t win enough seats to ensure a clean coalition of Labour plus the Greens, so everything's still on the table with every party. Now we're not pushing beyond our weight because we accept that we don’t deliver the numbers to Labour, that they need to work with a range of parties to ensure that Helen Clark remains Prime Minister, and I guess if you want a number one, that is the number one because if Don Brash ends up ever becoming Prime Minister New Zealand would go backwards and we will do everything we can to stop that from happening. SIMON But you are prepared nevertheless to be out of government, did you say to be on the same arrangement you had last time? ROD Well we hope to get a better arrangement than last time because we're willing to negotiate a confidence and supply agreement, whereas last time it was simply a cooperation agreement and there is a difference because with confidence and supply when we had that in 99 to 2002 we were more involved in policy setting, we did have some of our own budget initiatives, so that would be the minimum we would expect, but as for sitting at the Cabinet table well we're a long way from that. SIMON You said you're hoping for a better arrangement, obviously you must have something in mind, what exactly would you be seeking or is it just better? ROD Well we'd be better to the extent that with confidence and supply on the one hand government can rely on our votes and any confidence motion, on the other hand we would expect to have some input into any of the issues that are coming forward under confidence, particularly the Budget. SIMON And which policies? ROD Well we have policies right across the spectrum, I mean that’s the thing about the Greens we're not just an environmental party, we're a party that’s deeply concerned about the economy, we want it to be sustainable and self reliant, we want to focus on Buy Kiwi Made, we want a strong manufacturing infrastructure, we want full employment in New Zealand and we've got some very constructive suggestions to make to achieve those goals. SIMON But again you're speaking in very broad platitudes, what are you pushing for mostly? What's number one? ROD Before the election which got very little coverage at the time we put up 12 policy headlines that we wanted to achieve, energy was obviously right up there, the environment, 95% of our low land rivers aren’t fit to swim in let alone drink from, so we want some clean up going on of those rivers cos our whole clean green image is at stake. We want to lift the minimum wage to $12 an hour and we want Working for Families extended to the children of superannuitants and sole parents and beneficiaries, but we're not about to demand any of those things in return for support of the government because it's all a matter of negotiation. SIMON You said among those things that you're trying to seek is a minimum wage of $12 an hour, you're meeting these 40 business leaders you’ve invited to meet with you on Tuesday, how do you think they're gonna react to a $12 an hour demand? ROD Well some of them won't like that of course, others are already paying a minimum of $12 an hour in their industry. The concern will come from those who are competing against sweat shop imports and we can understand companies not wanting to have to pay more in New Zealand when the competitor down the road is bringing in imports from an economy that’s only paying a dollar an hour with no health and safety and no environmental standards, and that’s why we want to protect our borders from unfair competition. SIMON Is the meeting with the leaders your idea or has Labour asked you to do this? ROD Oh Labour definitely haven’t asked us to do it, it was my idea because in Monday's paper one of the first headlines we read was along the lines of the business scared of Greens and instead of trying to rebut those accusations one at a time and getting into a tit for tat, I thought well let's do what we were doing before the election, because before the election we had sessions with business leaders through Hugo Group and Chen & Palmer and Minter Allison so let's invite them all in, let them see where our horns really are, let's put on the table our energy and our transport and our trade and our economic policies and we can have a dialogue, because we actually do want to work with business, I mean our economy depends on successful businesses, we want the economy to thrive but not at the expense of the environment and not at the expense of workers. So we're saying we're very friendly towards businesses that are friendly toward their staff, the environment and the community, and we hope through a process of dialogue that we can actually perhaps even reach an agreement and also sort out where we can agree to disagree and move forward from there. SIMON Next time we see you on Agenda will you be a Minister? ROD Ah I doubt it, but we'll have to wait and see won't we. SIMON Rod Donald, Co-Leader of the Greens, thanks for joining us on Agenda today.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIMON This week the Maori Party met with its old enemies Labour and National to discuss coalition options and their plans for Maori. Both Maori Co-Leaders Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples have called the main parties divisive and damaging, but after scooping four seats at the election they’ll now have to work with either Labour or National in parliament. Co-Leader Pita Sharples is with me now to discuss the Maori Party's plans, kia ora welcome to our programme Pita. PITA Kia ora. SIMON On election night you said you may be Labour's last cab off the rank but that the fare had gone up. PITA Yes indeed. SIMON What is the price for your support? PITA Well I dunno, I hear now there are five cabs on the rank. SIMON But you were last cab of the rank and you said the fare has gone up, what did you mean? PITA Well what we meant was it looks like we have to be talked to and therefore we're no longer a last cab. SIMON But you talked about the fare going up, it suggests there is a price, it suggests that you have specific desires in mind. PITA Yeah and it's probably our bottom lines that we have that we had the party formed in the first place. There's big expectations from our people for us to perform, there's only four of us and we're looking at the long term that we have really gotta set the whariki, the platform if you like for the next election, so that’s what we'll do. At the end of three years we hope we've been credible, we've got more Maori seats, because it can change next year we'll lead the campaign to get more Maori enrolled on the Maori seats, and win a couple of things as well and that'll be good. SIMON You alluded to your bottom lines, does that suggest that your bottom lines have remained concrete, some of these other parties seem to be a little more fluid now? PITA Yeah it's very difficult for us to shift off for example the seats, the Maori seats, entrenchment of those seats has to be a bottom line, and I guess things related to the Treaty and of course the foreshore legislation, some review of that. We want ultimately to have it … SIMON On your website that’s exactly what you talk about, you talk about repealing the Foreshore and Seabed Act. Helen Clark said Monday though she hopes and I quote 'this is not a track people will want to go down', does that mean she's ruled that out with you? PITA Probably she has but we haven’t actually discussed that head on, that particular issue, but there may be a way to look at what people want at the end of the day and actually repeal it and put in other legislation. I think we've probably gotta prepare that idea first before we just say repeal. SIMON What has she discussed with you then? PITA Oh really just general stuff about what are the options, her options, our options, and didn’t quite say how many Cabinet posts we're getting but… SIMON You're working on that one I'm sure. You talked about the options, you also are quoted as saying you put forward I think it was an indigenous model, what does that entail? PITA Well we're looking at that, it's not quite formulated but its based on sort of a more togetherness of the group while the power still remains with the main body which would be whoever forms the government, it gives the other a better sort of say. SIMON Who do you mean by the other? PITA Well the other parties that make up the government. SIMON How is this an indigenous model? PITA Well it's based on both Maori philosophy and other overseas indigenous peoples. SIMON You’ve got the hui planned, you're going back to the electorate. PITA Yes we have. SIMON Meeting with your people, series of hui around the country, what do you envisage they will reveal? PITA Well I think they're ready and waiting and what they will reveal is definite direction for us because we'll take back the options, so and so have promised us this, this can mean this and this, so and so have said this and that and here are the options and or we can do this, and it'll be simple like that. SIMON But at the end of the day though with your electorate supporters you won four seats, with your electorate supporters they were overwhelmingly sending their party vote to Labour, you can't afford to ignore that can you? PITA No we can't but don’t forget a lot of that was the fear vote because part of Labour's campaign was to say a vote for the Maori Party is in fact a vote for National and look there's many Maori public servants who didn’t want their department closed down or affected, there are a whole lot of reasons why our people said oh they're going to abolish the seats, and everywhere we go we get this response, you know Dr Brash had put his cards on the table, they were unacceptable to many Maori and that’s what they're saying, don’t go there, and they put it with their vote so that’s why it went there but the fact that four of us won our seats and the other three did very well shows that they're very keen still on the Maori Party. SIMON Mm, still a large cab company. PITA Oh yes. Co-op. SIMON You also said on Monday that National would have to make a very big bend backward, that was the phrase you used, “a very big bend backward” on its policies for Maori to consider a deal. That suggested it's possible, what exactly would it take? PITA Well they may come up with a strategy by which they can save face on some of the issues that we're requiring them to back down on. SIMON Obviously backtracking on the abolition of the seats? PITA Either that or putting it up and losing it or something like that which would save them face. SIMON So if they did reverse on the abolition of the Maori seats would that be enough? PITA No it wouldn’t be enough. SIMON What else would it take? PITA It would take the Treaty to be recognised and probably put into some form of constitution, that’s one of the bottom lines, well however bottom it is, but everywhere Maori are saying the Treaty, we must have a constitution that recognises the concept of tangata whenua. We're being called multi cultural and yet here we are this is the only place we come from. So it's about recognising the tangata whenua concept and the need for them to do well so we can move forward as a country. SIMON What did Don Brash actually tell Tariana Turia earlier this week that he might be prepared to concede? PITA I missed that meeting. SIMON I'm sure you’ve spoken with your Co-Leader though. PITA I think they talked about the Foreshore and Seabed and I think they talked about the seats and didn’t know how to get around that one. SIMON Did he sort of offer up any possible concessions? PITA Well I think the way they were talking they were trying to sort of – well he was certainly trying to look at the possibility of how they could accommodate our bottom lines yeah. SIMON So it is still possible with National? PITA Well it's a big ask for them to do that. SIMON Possible though? PITA Well anything's possible. SIMON Tariana on the 29th of August less than a month ago, 'we will do our utmost to ensure the National Party do not make it to the government benches' – that doesn’t sound like there's any preparedness to accept National. PITA No but that’s about policy and bottom lines, what she's saying is if that’s how they think and if that’s their bottom line policy we can't go with them and I feel the same way. SIMON But if they're prepared to change you're prepared to … PITA Well if anyone's prepared to come the way that Maori people want of course we'll go that way, but there's also the option of sitting on the cross benches and just championing everything Maori as well as the general bills. SIMON Just going back to the abolition of the seats, would you be prepared to see a bill introduced to abolish them, a bill that was then lost, would that be enough? PITA It might be a risk and I don’t think we'd be prepared to take that risk, we'll have to live with it for the rest of our life. SIMON Now I want to come back to what you also said about the Treaty, the Maori Party stands for the Treaty of Waitangi providing the base for constitutional change in our nation so that shared governance becomes a reality, that’s from the website. How in practise would shared governance work? PITA Well it's like the Treaty being recognised for a start and a whole lot of indigenous rights, that’s what it means, it means allowing Maori people to determine for example why is it such a battle to put our educational options out there, we battled for years our own funding to establish kura kaupapa Maori, once it was established it was basically shut in the cupboard, no funding, no poiicy, no nothing, and it's that, so that’s what shared means, that we are bona fide example of New Zealand education and not just something to put in the cupboard, that’s what it means, having a say and having our options out there as real New Zealand options. SIMON With special votes counted next week where do you think you'll be? PITA I don’t think we'll have any change. SIMON Okay, you won't get the third list seat so you might be reducing the overhang? PITA Yeah there is that possibility, yes definitely that possibility. SIMON Where do you think you'll be, do you think you'll be in government or out at this point? PITA At this point it's very hard to answer that it really is because we are negotiating every second day with somebody and we are definitely looking at the real possibility of being outside of everybody and being on our own if some of our bottom lines can't be met. SIMON Pita Sharples, Co-Leader of the Maori Party thank you for coming on Agenda today. PITA Kia ora.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIMON He was first elected to parliament 27 years ago in 1978, he was one of the socalled Fish and Chips Gang which installed David Lange as Leader of the Labour Party, he was one of Roger Douglas's key supporters then he was sacked by David Lange and went on to be one of the founders and first leader of Act. Now as that party's recovering from one of its worst election results Richard Prebble's contemplating life as a private citizen, no longer a public figure. He's with me now. Good morning and welcome to the programme. RICHARD I was actually elected 30 years go. I had three years out retired by the voters. SIMON Okay well we'll take those off and give you the whole lot, three decades of it, still only 57, you know a young man. RICHARD Oh you'll go a long way. SIMON Setting up your future path, why did you call on Don Brash to concede when there's still a chance he with your party Act could form a government? RICHARD No there isn’t. SIMON It's a small chance, but it's a chance nevertheless isn’t it? RICHARD Well only if the National Party's prepared to go back on everything that its said, I mean here's Don Brash who actually made his name in the Orewa speech saying five minutes after the polls had closed oh I didn’t really mean it. I trust that that’s not so and even if the Greens drop out, even if they don’t run with specials, you still can't add up the numbers and the reason for that of course is the overhang, if the parliament was still 120 Don Brash this weekend would be moving in Premier House but he can't get to the new majority which is – he's got to get to 62 seats and he's just those two seats short and it's better to admit it rather than let us all think that Don Brash never meant a word that he's been telling us for the last 18 months. SIMON So if you were in his shoes would you have conceded. RICHARD Yes. SIMON Before the count of the specials? RICHARD Oh sure I would, I would have been right up front and said look this is what's going to happen, we'll wait and have a look but my expectation is that I can't form a government, it's better to say that than to say look I'm gonna go around and have a cuppa tea with the Maori Party. SIMON Well okay what do you make of what Pita Sharples said? RICHARD Oh I think Mr Sharples is turning out to be quite a good politician, I think that he sent along his co-leader to have a cuppa tea with Don Brash just to put a bit of pressure on Helen Clark. SIMON And beyond that do you think there's a possibility they could end up together? RICHARD No, no not a chance, but that doesn’t mean to say that the Maori Party and National might not vote together frequently in parliament, in fact when you go back and look at the Maori Party's voting in the last year they often voted with National but for completely different reasons. I mean the Act Party often found itself in the lobbies with the Green Party, and the Green Party because it didn’t go far enough and the Act Party because it went too far. SIMON How strange is this for a first past the post politician? RICHARD Well some of the disputes actually used to occur in caucuses, I mean National and Labour are both broad churches so all we're seeing is some more transparency, but in other ways I think MMP has let us all down, we've just been told by the Electoral Commission with our own money that the party vote's going to determine who the government is. If you add up the party votes the centre right got 28 thousand more votes that the centre left and yet there's no chance for the centre right and why is that, because of the overhang and what the Maori Party and Labour have done is they’ve gained the system, by disappointing constituencies and not party votes the left gets more seats so. SIMON You're blaming MMP for this? RICHARD I most certainly am. SIMON See you ended up with inequities in first past the post. RICHARD It's true and there's no perfect electoral system, but I am saying that in fact the centre right's been robbed and it just shows you what a tolerant group of people we are. SIMON But you can't blame MMP I mean 1981 when Labour had more votes than National and didn’t end up in government, I mean surely that’s a greater inequity and that was first past the post. RICHARD That’s true but indeed what happened there was exactly what Labour's done in this election, Labour just concentrated on its city urban electorates and didn’t try to win the heartland and of course that’s what Labour's done this election, they didn’t put in any effort into the provincial seats, they worked out that the easiest way to get list votes was to go down the street in Mangere where 99.9% of the voters you find are going to be Labour voters and truck them to the poll and we actually saw that on election night where National was leading nearly all night until those big Auckland electorates came in where Labour had put all its effort. SIMON How is the centre right sposed to fight that? RICHARD Oh what the centre right didn’t do… SIMON Obviously tax cuts aren’t enough. RICHARD Well I think the centre right, I'm criticising National here, National decided it was easier to gain votes from Act from the United Party from New Zealand First rather than from Labour because if you actually look at Labour's performance they went down less than 1%, a very credible performance and not enough votes changed over, so while the centre right is ahead it's only 28,000 ahead and I think National should have worked harder at actually shifting votes across the middle line. SIMON Giving away some votes. You know it's easy for you to blame National for cannibalising Act's vote but surely Act has to take some responsibility for its own failings. Where do they lie? RICHARD Oh sure we do, and I think that our campaigning just to say we're gonna be a loyal ally for Don Brash yes that worked to win Epsom, but in fact what the Act Party's always done is bring out new fresh ideas and what's happened to us here is that our ideas have all been cannibalised, so one example was a time limit for Treaty, when Act put that forward every single party in parliament including New Zealand First voted against it, now every party except the Greens is in favour. I'd say that’s a success but what the Act Party then has to do is go to a new area and one that the main parties won't look at and welfare abuse is a classic example. SIMON As new territory. RICHARD We know there's massive welfare abuse in New Zealand, the two major parties don’t want to look at it because that’s a lot of votes, there's a lot of their voters who are on the welfare system doing very well thanks very much. SIMON That’s where you should have gone. You failed to carve that out earlier. RICHARD Well we did a bit, but I don’t think we did it enough. It's a pretty tough ask for Rodney, I mean here he is faced with having to save the party or do a wider campaign and I think the election night showed that he took the right strategy. SIMON In the Herald this morning you say Act has been given another life by the voters of Epsom, Rodney can either become a Jim Anderton, an MP with an electorate and not party, or he can relaunch the Act Party to do bigger and better things. Was electing Rodney Hide as leader a mistake? RICHARD Well actually I think the election results showed that it wasn’t, because he did manage to win Epsom and that’s no mean feat, I mean I've won an electorate like that and it requires an ability to connect with the voters. I always thought that Rodney could do that and he has and now he's gotta do another even tougher task of getting the party going again, but he's got great energy, and you’re asking me can he do it, I'm saying yes he can, and funnily enough when Don Brash stands down as I expect he will, that'll make Rodney's task easier because Don Brash is really an Act MP, whereas John Key isn’t, John Key's a classic National Party you know Bill Birch style politician, Bill Birch with a bit of charisma. SIMON Would Act have done better under your leadership? RICHARD I doubt it. SIMON Why not? RICHARD Well because I would have gone for the 5% and with National being so willing to take our policies, even take our slogans, it makes things difficult. This was going to be a very tough election for the third parties. All the third parties had a swing against them. SIMON Yet they're all back. RICHARD Well yeah but by the skin of their teeth and under MMP clearly the New Zealand electorate sort of likes to have this kaleidoscope. The difficulty is of course what we've actually done by not making clear decisions on the ballot box is we're letting the politicians go away and make them for us and I find that fundamentally undemocratic. I mean where's the constitutional principle that the biggest party should be supported by the third parties, there's no constitutional principle there, it's really Winston Peters saying if the Greens were the biggest party he'd be giving them supply and if he isn’t then why is he giving it to Labour. SIMON So you think the voters have got it wrong that you know 98% of them have failed to vote for Act? RICHARD Oh I always think that, but in a democracy people are entitled to be wrong. Where I think we've got it wrong is that MMP's actually an indulgence, first past the post would have given us a clear mandate and a government that’s able to govern. This government's gonna do virtually nothing in the next three years. SIMON You said earlier this week, I think it was in your newsletter, The Letter, if I was looking for a new political cause it would be a citizen's referendum to dump MMP. You’ve made that quite clear why don’t you, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is on that one? RICHARD Ohh, thank you very much mate, 30 years in politics, I'm feeling a bit weary. SIMON It's a sideline issue… RICHARD Well no I'm gonna go and do some other things now. SIMON What are you going to do? RICHARD What am I gonna do – well when I was retired by the voters before I went back to business and found that actually making things that people really want is really quite fun as opposed to persuading people that they ought to have something that they'd never thought they needed and I often think the problem with Act is that we solved problems that people didn’t even know they had. SIMON So no politics? That’s it, all over? Never say never? RICHARD Oh you can never say never, you can't exclude your democratic right to have an opinion, and I'm going to go on being a supporter of the Act Party but I'm putting most of my energy into my new life and thoroughly enjoying it. SIMON Good luck with it. RICHARD Thank you very much. SIMON Former Act Leader Richard Prebble, it's been a real pleasure. Thanks for coming on the programme.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SIMON There were 21 new National Party MPs elected last Saturday, and two of them are Allan Peachey, MP for Sir Robert Muldoon's old seat of Tamaki, and Jacqui Dean the new MP for Otago, they're with me now. Good morning and welcome to you both. How's the induction process going, like first day at a new school is it? JACQUI Well for me it is certainly it was like a new day at boarding school and I felt like I was always going to turn the wrong way down the corridor, so a pretty surreal feeling actually. ALLAN Yeah I think the boarding school analogy's a really good one, it reminded me of the day I started boarding school, all a big mystery, couldn’t find my lunch, trying to work out who my mates were and who to avoid and who to hang round with. SIMON What's it like to be one of the new school kids when you're used to being the Principal? ALLAN Humbling. SIMON Humbling? Who is the Principal? ALLAN The boss, Don Brash. SIMON Vice Principal? ALLAN Gerry Brownlee… SIMON Oh good you're good at reciting the old party hierarchy, well done. What role have you each been told you'll play in caucus – Jacqui? JACQUI We haven’t been told yet, we're waiting for the specials of course so we're just – it's quite a good time for us because it's giving us the opportunity to become familiar with the surroundings and become familiar with you know we've got an awful lot of forms to fill for a start so it's giving us a bit of room to get ourselves sorted before we're allocated roles. SIMON What do you want to do? JACQUI I want – I have an interest in infrastructure, I have an interest in electricity and roading, so yeah I'm quite interested in a spokesmanship, you know some association there. SIMON Energy? JACQUI Absolutely. SIMON You might come up against Rod Donald? JACQUI Could well do, I think we've got some very interesting issues in New Zealand with energy. I mean I was pretty close to Project Aqua when that was happening and that’s really sharpened up my interest in energy. SIMON Allan what role yourself, I mean obviously you're gonna be in education somewhere. ALLAN I would imagine so, I think the message that I picked up myself sitting in caucus was that a large number of us have won electorates and our first responsibility is to get to know our electorates even better than we know them now, and be superb electorate MPs, because all politics at the end of the day is local politics. SIMON Are you living in your electorate? ALLAN Not at the moment no. SIMON Are you moving? ALLAN We hope to yes. But yes there will be a role for me in education, I've got no doubt about that as well. SIMON What's been talked about what role? ALLAN Nothing specific, Bill English and I spent an hour together on Tuesday, and I was in awe of his knowledge of parliament and its procedures and the way the system works and I think he respects my experience. SIMON Plus he's an old lag there isn’t he? ALLAN Yeah in achievements and I think we'll be a formidable team. SIMON And do you hope to have the spokesmanship? ALLAN I don’t expect to have the spokesmanship no. SIMON What do you want to do? ALLAN Maybe one day, what I want to do initially is just to get to know how the place works and how to be a good electorate MP. I don’t want to be typecast forever as the educationalist, I have wide ranging interests and I want to take this opportunity to learn a lot about things that I currently know very little about. SIMON Jacqui realistically what do you hope to achieve in the next three years, I know it's a learning experience, back bench etc etc, but what do you hope to achieve, have you got goals? JACQUI Yes I have, I want to be, I mean I'm like Allan, we are the new chums and we're very aware of that fact, I'm very aware that I didn’t fight hard to win Otago just to be a one term MP, so my responsibility as I see it is to be a very good MP for Otago. The reason I went into politics is because I am a rural provincial person and that’s where my interest lies, so in my first term I am going to as a good friend of mine says, grip my beak a lot of the time and become a competent good MP first of all for Otago because that’s why I'm doing this, but also I want to become a good National Party politician. SIMON You traded quite reasonably heavily on your early profile as Play School presenter, and interest in broadcasting? JACQUI Not particularly, no, Play School – it was interesting it was something I thought I'd left behind, so when you say I traded on it, actually it was something I put in my CV because it's something I'd done. SIMON It's the first line on your National Party biography, on your website biography, it's the first line. JACQUI And it's been picked up on like mad hasn’t it? Yeah, interesting it's a job as I say that was fabulous 25 years ago and I loved doing it and it's probably armed me with some excellent skills going forward. I mean when you make a television programme you make five programmes a week you become very disciplined, you become a quick learner, you have to respond very quickly, we recorded it as live, it wasn’t live but it was live, so I think I've brought a lot of skills from Play School to today. SIMON That’s an interesting parallel. Allan Peachey a few days before the election Don Brash called Te O Wananga Aotearoa one of the great embarrassments of the Helen Clark Labour government, that’s a direct quote, yet this week Bill English called it an inclusive Maori institution that should be encouraged, which is it? ALLAN To give a very I guess specifically political answer it's probably both of those things. SIMON Oh come on that’s fairly firmly wedged on the fence isn’t it? ALLAN Yeah I think one of the tragedies is that so much good work has been done and yet so much has been got wrong and that’s sad. SIMON Is it a good institution? ALLAN I think it has huge potential to be an outstanding institution. SIMON An inclusive institution? ALLAN It has to be. SIMON Is it now? ALLAN No. SIMON Bill English says it is. ALLAN That wouldn’t be my impression. SIMON Okay so you're already off to a different start? ALLAN Oh a technical difference. SIMON A technical difference. You're learning politics very quickly. What did you make of National's campaign? JACQUI Very focused on the issues. It was excellent for me to be able to go out and campaign in Otago on the issues and that’s what I did. I mean when our tax policy was announced and I had the tax postcard which of course was widely distributed around the country I was able to go out with that and say this is National's tax policy, this is where we stand on tax issues, and it was wonderful, I did an awful lot of on the ground old fashioned campaigning, and say for example I'd be in Cromwell and I'd be going round the industrial area and I'd be able to say gooday you know I'm Jacqui Dean the National Party candidate which I've done a lot of in the last year, and hand over this little tax cut policy which is very easy for people to understand and relate to, so I was very pleased to go out campaigning on that. We campaigned throughout the campaign on our issues and I think that it was for me it was a very positive campaign, we knew where we stood, we knew what we stood for and so I was very happy to go out campaigning on that basis. SIMON Are you comfortable with the Maori policy Allan? ALLAN Yes. SIMON Very comfortable? ALLAN Yes. SIMON You’ve got Glen Innes at the back of your electorate there. ALLAN Yes I have. SIMON High Maori population, you don’t think it's divisive at all? You don’t think it's got potential to be racially inflammatory – potential? ALLAN It has the potential to cause difference but I think that at some point in time New Zealand has to start a debate on what its future's going to be. SIMON So you're prepared to accommodate that potential for it to cause difference? ALLAN I think that is part of the debate there will always be differences but as a result of that debate however long it takes I hope a sort of an agreed vision on what New Zealand will be in this century will emerge from that. SIMON You're new kids on the block, some of the very large block of new kids on the block, what are your long term aspirations Jacqui? JACQUI Well as I said I didn’t fight hard to win Otago to be a one term MP so what I want to do is to build up Otago as a safe National seat again. SIMON Is that the limit of your aspirations at the moment? JACQUI Absolutely not. SIMON Where do your aspirations go to? JACQUI Probably further than the first term as I say I have an interest in infrastructure. SIMON Let's assume you do get back several times, where do you want to be in the long term? JACQUI In the long term I want to retain my interest in Otago because I think the moment you take your focus off your electorate then you know goodbye because people stop believing in you. SIMON Any leadership aspirations? JACQUI No not leadership aspirations. SIMON Allan? ALLAN I've always set out in every job I've had to be the very best that I could be at it and then let things take their course, and I'm approaching politics in exactly the same way. SIMON Alright, open ended, but would you like to be leader one day? ALLAN I have never ever turned down an opportunity to provide leadership and whatever opportunities come up in the future I certainly would take. SIMON So if the leadership was available to you in the future you would take it? ALLAN if it had… SIMON If it was offered to you in the future with support you would take it? ALLAN Yes I would. SIMON Jacqui Dean, Allan Peachey, new National MPs, congratulations, thank you for coming on to Agenda today. Transcripts are copyright to Front Page Ltd and may contain errors. They should be checked against a taped copy of the programme to ensure accuracy. Copyright to Front Page Ltd but may be used PROVIDED attribution is made to TVOne and Agenda |
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